Talk:Dragon

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Are these stats right?

Watching the stat values for this guy I can't believe these are true. Especially with the sentence above "Note that creatures will have different stats in Survival of the Fittest". For me it seems these are the values of SotF (I never played SotF, just guessing). The health of 20,000 is very low for a boss. The broodmother has 500,000, and the Gorilla has 200,000. If I have a look in the devkit (242.7) I can in fact see in the blueprint /Game/PrimalEarth/CoreBlueprints/DinoCharacterStatusComponent_BP_Dragon these very values, but there is another blueprint with the same name but with Boss appended. And there I see e.g. a health value of 240,000. This seems more reasonable. What do you think about this? (I can't test it, my game is constantly crashing when I'm trying to enter the boss arenas.) --Flachdachs (talk) 19:39, 8 June 2016 (UTC)

Theriz vs Dragon, debunking the urban legend

There is urban legend claiming that Theriz does better than Rex against the Dragon. Let's debunk this.

  • First and foremost, this legend originates from the belief that the Dragon causes Fire damage and herbivores take less damage from Fire attack. But the essential part of the damage Dragon deals comes from the Fire Breath which doesn't cause fire damage but percent-based damage (so overall herbivores do not take less damage than carnivores).
  • Another debunked claim is the higher DPS of the Theriz compared to the Rex, this is false once again. The Rex has higher base melee stat AND higher gain per wild level, which mean the higher the level the larger the gap gets between the two. As for the attack speed there is no significant difference as shown in this video : https://youtu.be/NyB3LFIvR9A
  • Yet another false claim is the Vegetable Cake is more potent than Daeodon healing. This is false as the Vegetable Cake has many caps, in the amount of point healed, in the time it takes to heal, and in the cooldown between cakes. The Daeodon if managed correctly far surpasses the healing capabilities of the Vegetable Cake.
  • Another problem of the Theriz is its smaller size that makes it more vulnerable to Lava damage in the Dragon arena, whereas the larger Rex can cross the lava rivers without taking any damage. Koyit20512 (talk) 16:37, 14 March 2024 (UTC)
* Yes, multiple times the percentage based portion of the fire damage was very clearly stated to not be relevant. For example, the addition I made which reads, This only applies to the fireball since the percentage based damage is **not** affected by the Therizino being a herbivore, hence the damage reduction being the most minor factor in their suitability. This was never in question and holds minimal sway in the discussion.
* I initially only stated the damage was comparable, after comparing the attack speeds directly I indeed see that claiming they were faster is too minimal to be relevant and won't be bringing it up again. This does not change the fact of the initial statement that they are still comparable- not stronger, but not massively lower, either.
* The time taken to heal from cakes was considered in the documenting that OSubMarin made. While I didn't make those calculations and won't be going into them as such, another factor to consider is that you need to sacrifice one of your damage tames for that healing.
* The edit reason for the edit removing (among other things) was .. comparisons unrelated to the creature being discussed in the bulletpoint topic are being removed.
* And finally, the main purpose of my edit was to better communicate the general consensus being to use Therizinos specifically for Dragon, even by people who otherwise use Rexes- since it's less opinionated to state the fact that they are widely considered the best option. Additionally, the entire section was questionably subjective before your edits, and those were also addressed.
Eclipse (talk) 16:57, 14 March 2024 (UTC)


I'm gonna reply point by point:
A) First and foremost, this legend originates from the belief that the Dragon causes Fire damage and herbivores take less damage from Fire attack. But the essential part of the damage Dragon deals comes from the Fire Breath which doesn't cause fire damage but percent-based damage (so overall herbivores do not take less damage than carnivores).
It was clear on the page that Fire Breath is not reduced on herbivores. Only yourself misunderstood it. You are just repeating an information already present.
B) Another debunked claim is the higher DPS of the Theriz compared to the Rex, this is false once again. The Rex has higher base melee stat AND higher gain per wild level, which mean the higher the level the larger the gap gets between the two. As for the attack speed there is no significant difference as shown in this video : https://youtu.be/NyB3LFIvR9A
Trying to use Rex/Theriz damage comparison in a Dragon boss fight only shows that you don't understand how the Theriz strategy works. The Theriz strategy is based on healing and damage over time (and not on damage rush like rexes).
C) Yet another false claim is the Vegetable Cake is more potent than Daeodon healing. This is false as the Vegetable Cake has many caps, in the amount of point healed, in the time it takes to heal, and in the cooldown between cakes. The Daeodon if managed correctly far surpasses the healing capabilities of the Vegetable Cake.
Again this is wrong, a Daeodon is capped by its Food statistic, while Veggie Cakes have no cap (the only cap is the weight of the dino). You don't understand how healing works over time so let me explain it to you:

  • On 19 dinos with 27.5k HP (for example 19 rexes with 100% imprint and 45 wild + 20 tamed levels), a Daeodon (with 100% imprint and 45 wild + 60 tamed levels in Food) will have no more food after 51 seconds of healing at full rate. This represents a total of 130 815 HP (which is 6 885 HP per dino).
  • Even if you manage to force feed your Daeodon with 100 basic kibbles, it will only provide 9k food, which is negligible compared to the Food stat of a good Daeodon (133k for a Daeodon with 100% imprint and 45 wild + 60 tamed levels).

While the Daeodon will get cap (no food) after 51 seconds at full healing rate, the veggie cakes can go much further:

  • If you place 15 cakes per inventory it will take 7 minutes and a half for the 20 herbivores to consume them, and will give a total of 630 000 HP (31 500 HP per dino, considering 20 herbivores at 21k HP or more).
  • Using 15 Veggie Cakes per dino on 20 herbivores with 21k HP will heal 4.8x more (over 7 minutes and 30 seconds) than using Daeodon healing on 19 dinos with 27.5k HP (over 51 seconds, which is the cap for an average good Daeodon).
  • Using 28 Veggie Cakes per dino on 20 herbivores with 21k HP will heal 9x more (over 14 minutes) than using Daeodon healing on 19 dinos with 27.5k HP (over 51 seconds, which is the cap for an average good Daeodon).
  • And so on... You can place 60 cakes if you want, the more you place the more it will heal (only 14 cakes are needed for an alpha dragon boss fight btw).

Daeodon healing cap: [1] and [2]
Veggie cakes healing cap: [3] and [4]
As we can see, if we consider time (something that you never take into account), Veggie Cakes healing outperforms Daedon's healing drastically in a Dragon boss fight scenario.
D) Another problem of the Theriz is its smaller size that makes it more vulnerable to Lava damage in the Dragon arena, whereas the larger Rex can cross the lava rivers without taking any damage.
The Theriz have better mobility, so it will be able to reach the Dragon more easily, and it can avoid going in the lava more easily than Rex. Even if the Theriz fall into lava the damage lava does to it will be healed by veggie cakes very easily (lava damage is negligible compared to the healing provided by cakes), so you have plenty of time to get them out (time that you never have with rexes since they die quickly to fire breath).
==== Conclusion ====
Therizinosaurus is a player's best chance at taking down Dragon, due to it being practically invincible since Fire Breath is what does most of the Dragon's damage and that using veggie cakes will negate it (2 veggie cakes can negate 1 fire breath, each minute), that's just facts. Rexes will quickly die to Fire Breaths. They will die to the 5th fire breath if no healing is done, or on the 6 or 7th fire breath if healing is done with a very good Daedon and massive use of basic kibbles. There's nothing you can do here to go over this hard cap of 6-7 Fire Breath. If your Rexes don't have enough damage to take it down before this hard cap, then they will simply all die. On one hand you have the Theriz strategy, a safe way to take down Dragon (providing them with veggie cakes will give you all the time you want to take down alpha dragon), and on the other hand you have the Rex strategy, which is risky due to it being vulnerable to Fire Breath (will definitely require high damage rexes and the help of additional dinos like Daeodon and Yutyrannus). OSubMarin (talk) 18:30, 14 March 2024 (UTC)